Podcast Feature: Melanin & Miles - #41 How to Start Your Own Travel Brand

Melanin and Miles Podcast- Episode 41: How to Start Your Own Travel Brand with BlackTravelBox Founder, Orion Brown

Audio and Photo Source: Joi Wade and Janelle Layton, Melanin and Miles Podcast

Episode Summary:

Our Founder and CEO, Orion Brown, was invited to be a guest on the Melanin and Miles Podcast to chat about all things travel, beauty, and growing a business. Want to know the truth behind starting your own brand? Listen below:

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Episode Transcript:

Melanin and Miles Podcast

Episode 41

Joy (00:01):
Hi, I'm Joy.

Jenelle (00:02):
And I'm Jenelle.

Joy (00:04):
And we are your hosts of the melanin and miles podcast. We are just two black girls in our twenties. We have traveled to over 25 countries in five continents, and we want to share our childhood experiences and advice with you. Like when I went cliff jumping in Jamaica, or when I booked a flight for only $6. And even when I lived with a host family who didn't speak any English in Spain for four months,

Jenelle (00:27):
Or when I went skydiving in DC, swim with elephants in Thailand and one over $200 at a casino in Puerto Rico,

Jenelle (00:34):
Make sure you subscribe to our podcast and tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Before we get into the episode, make sure you get your hands on our free Budget Babe Travel Guide to learn the top 10 ways you could be saving hundreds or even thousands of dollars on your next travel adventure. Get the free guide straight to your inbox@melaninandmiles.Com/Free.

Jenelle (01:06):
This segment of our podcast is called the check-in where we both update you guys on where we've been traveling and life updates in 60 seconds or less before we get into the episode, Hey, everyone is Jenelle checking in. And I know it's been a while since I have checked in mainly because I've been doing like the same stuff every week, not being able to travel with everything going on, but this week I'm actually packing because I'm going to visit Joy in Florida for a week so we can work on the podcast together and get some more recordings done.

Jenelle (01:43):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to Melanin and Miles. This week, we're doing another interview with Orion Brown. She's the Founder and CEO of The Black Travel Box, a company that offers clean beauty essentials on the go for travelers of color, which I find this really convenient because you can really never find these products anywhere like at any store for us. So I love that you have this. So before we get too into too much detail with questions, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, how old you are, where you're from, et cetera.

Orion Brown (02:18):
Yes, definitely. And thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat with you. My name is Orion, as you said, I am Ooh, 38. It's been a minute. We're approaching that big 4-0. And I'm originally from Chicago, Illinois. Chicago is my hometown. I've lived all over the country over the years, not only in my adult life, but in my childhood, I kind of grew up moving around a little bit. And I think that's what really excuse me. And I think that's what really sparked my interest in travel because I just found like even the most boring places can be, excuse me, even the most boring places can be very, very very interesting. So I started BlackTravelBox in 2017 as a passion project after spending almost a decade in brand management and then having taken some time away and working in some other areas. And I really miss having a brand to work with. So between my own travel experiences and challenges and the need to have, you know, to create something and share something with the world that's where BlackTravelBox formed.

Joy (03:33):
Sorry, I was on mute. No, you're good. I was on mute. Okay. So that's really cool. So what actually inspires you to travel so much?

Orion Brown (03:43):
I grew up on the South side of Chicago, and my dad makes fun of me for using him as an example, but it's really true. He currently lives two miles away from where he was basically born or where he grew up. So most of my family hasn't really moved very far from, from the places that they're from. And we know like the green book generation where, you know, travel was really just kind of relegated between places you knew and particularly in the Midwest places you knew and the south back and forth, and that was about it. And unless you were in the army, that was the only time that like you really got to see the world. So for me, as I was I would say my exposure began in college. I went to University of Chicago, which is not black and white diverse, but definitely internationally diverse.

Orion Brown (04:33):
And so I got a lot more experience people who are really different, grew up in different places and got to see how similar actually they could be. One of my best friends was from Malaysia, which I was like, I had to look that up on my map, like where exactly, I know it's somewhere in there, South Asian Island area. And so in, in meeting people like that, it really sparked an interest to want to see the places they were from. I will say though, I still had that head space of, you know, the world's big and scary, and I actually didn't get my passport until I was 25. And I got it actually the same year. It was around the same time, I got nose rings. So I was feeling like pretty daring. I was like, I got a nose ring, we've got to get a passport.

Orion Brown (05:20):
And so that was, you know, that was sort of the emphasis and I've purchased a passport before I had anywhere to go. I was still a little bit shy. And you know, ultimately what opened me up to not really serious travel was my ex husband, my now ex-husband, lovely man, but he's from Jamaica. And we went to Jamaica for the holidays all the time. And it was, you know, that's a huge culture shock, number one to be in a place that is just all black, it's a huge culture shock. And I don't think people talk about that. It's different when you haven't been in a space like that. You know, Chicago, I had been in a space like that in terms of part of the city, but to know that the entire nation was beautiful, shades of Brown and black, I just was, I was floored.

Orion Brown (06:10):
And so having that experience was, you know, I just want it to be in more different places and, you know, social economically Jamaica is pretty different as well. When you talk about poverty in the hood, when you talk about poverty in inner cities, it's a very different thing in Jamaica. As well as, you know, wealth and middle-class, it's very different in Jamaica. And so for me, I found that intriguing and the flip side to it, the thing that really made me that really drew me in was somehow it felt like home. I can't tell you, I can't describe the feeling, but it's sort of like if you've ever had something really bad happen and you're sad and the thought comes into your mind that you just want to go home, whatever that is for you. That was how Jamaica felt for me. And, and in my mother in law's house, I felt like that was safest, most loving, most familiar place on earth. And that was basically the first time I had ever been there, but I felt that, and I was like, this is insane. I need, I need more of this. I love that place, but I want to see where else in the world feel like a soul base for me. And, and that's what got me excited. And from there I just started traveling a lot more.

Joy (07:33):
That's really cool. So what would you say your favorite thing is about travel now that you've gotten to travel so much?

Orion Brown (07:42):
Ooh, my absolute favorite thing about travel is the moment that I can have sort of a quiet space with God and experience a place. And it can be sitting in the middle of a Plaza in Barcelona, or it can be on the top of Table Mountain in South Africa and Cape Town, or it could be looking over a vineyard in Napa. There's always a moment that I take either purposely or it kind of sneaks up on me to be frank where I look around and there is a level of gratitude and a weight of presence that I have to just take a moment and say, thank you, God, this is gorgeous. This is lovely. This is what makes experience worth being. You know, someone posted recently in a group that I'm in talking about, how do you overcome bad experiences or how do you kind of get the will to move on and like keep doing and all of that.

Orion Brown (08:53):
And I think these types experiences are helpful for me personally, to say, if nothing ever went right in my life, if I could have another experience like that, it would be worth living that next day. And that next day, if those experiences kept coming, if those moments kept coming, because all the stuff that we get bogged down and all the things that we worry about, all the things that hurt us that are valid, you know, they're there, there relevant and they're valid things. But when it comes down to it, to their creation, that is around us, whether it be other people, there is something beautiful about meeting a person in another country and vibing with him and not even speaking the same language like that is a gratitude moment for me, where we can both laugh at the same thing or share something, preferably foods and having that moment of human connection. I value that on a spiritual level. And so those moments of gratitude, whether it's seeing something beautiful, whether they're experiencing something beautiful, or just, you know, just being there. That's, that's a huge spark for me and that I look for that in every trip and anytime I'm taking it. So even if it's for work, if I am overdoing it, then I take a moment to find the gratitude. If it hasn't found me.

Joy (10:18):
That's powerful. Yeah. You're like, I feel like you have like a philosopher, like, soul. I'm sitting here, like "yes. Yes. I agree." So with that said, I'm super glad we got to know a little bit more about you and your background. You mentioned at the beginning, when you're introducing yourself that, you know, you had a background in branding and you wanted to start your own brands. So can we hear a little bit about how you what your business is and what inspired you to start it?

Orion Brown (10:49):
Yes. Yes. So The Black Travel Box is a clean beauty brand made with travelers in color in mind. Right? So again, you know, travel is so core to who I am. And I saw a gap in the marketplace because, you know, like you said, there, there isn't really travel ready products, or even out of home-friendly products that are made for us. If we look at retailers like Target, they have done amazing things with bringing around a multicultural aisle, particularly in haircare. We're not quite there with skincare. But in that, if you look at the end of that aisle, that little two-foot set up travel products, most of it actually isn't even the products from the multicultural set, right? It's a, it's a product here or there, and there's a lot of complexities and things that go into that and how it's manufactured and how quickly it has to turn on shelves, et cetera, et cetera.

Orion Brown (11:46):
So ultimately there's nobody out there going black people love to travel. Yes, we do. We do it a lot. We go swimming, we divers, I'm PADI-Certified. We go climb mountains. We do all kinds of stuff because we're not a monolith. We are a lot of different things. And one of the things that brings us together is our love for travel. And this newly found know black travel movement, someone needs to serve that market. And so, you know, I started at, like I said, as sort of a twofold thing, one, I saw a gap in the marketplace and I thought that it needed to be fixed. And then it was why not me? And I had, you know, with my partner at the time had the conversation, I was complaining, why isn't there something for me? And it should do this and it should do that. And he was like, isn't this like what your whole career was like, why don't you just make it go, make it go, make what you want to see.

Orion Brown (12:37):
And so, you know, that was sort of the impetus. And as I've gone through the process of building the business and talking to other black travelers, particularly women, men as well, I've become more and more passionate about it. Because I realize the length that we go to avoid dealing with the challenge of not having enough product, not having the right products, not having them available to us when we need them- it is just staggering. And it actually kind of pissed me off. So now I'm doubling down on making this business work because I believe it really does. I have a place in a space in the marketplace for us that that needs to be created.

Joy (13:23):
Right. That's awesome. Those are always the best brands when, you know, it's not there and people need it. So just for people who are listening, who aren't familiar with your products, can you kind of explain what someone might find or be looking for when they come to you? And like, do you make your own products or do you sell other people's products? Just some more info information on the brand itself?

Orion Brown (13:48):
Oh, yes, of course. So all of our products, we were both manufacturer and brand, so we don't bring on third party products. And there's a number of reasons for that. But you know, the kind of product that you're going to find right now, we are focused on the products that are the most what I call polarizing, right? The products that are hardest for us to find for us in general. So things like shampoo, co wash conditioner, you can find shampoo and conditioner in most hotels. It's usually in a bottle that is not even the full three and a half ounce. It's usually an ounce or maybe two ounces if they're being generous. And oftentimes the ingredients are far too harsh for our hair and do terrible things. And I have too many stories of my own trying to deal with you know, products that are available. We also talk about lotions and hotels, and everybody knows you put that lotion on and if you have two-dats of melanin it's going to be Ash-city.

Joy (14:50):
I know

Orion Brown (14:52):
Exactly, exactly. So those were the things that we've primarily focused on with the launch of this business. So we have our shampoos, our co washes, and our conditioners currently are all in solid format. And that's for three reasons. One, we want to get you through TSA without you having to catch a case and get a mugshot. Cause they didn't snatch your full size product. We don't want that to happen. Number two, the product, like I said, that's available. It doesn't come in enough product to last most trips. So we want to make sure that you're able to actually use it and use it regularly. And our bars are concentrated. So you're not paying for water. You're not paying for water from us and you're not paying for water in your bag by checking a bag and keeping a full size bottle. And number three, it's just, it's lower waste.

Orion Brown (15:42):
Like why schlep a big plastic bottle and then go make somebody else's country you know, a landfill. Our bars are solid. They look about the size are full size bars are about the size of a soap bar. But they're not. So they are shampoo. They are conditioner. They are co-wash. And basically you add the water to them in the shower or wherever you are. That's also nice because they're very compact and easy to travel with. So they can go in your carry on safely without spilling and ruining your clothes. Our here balm is just a basic hairdressing. So we heard a lot from people that they were going to grocery stores and getting coconut oil and grape seed oil and using it as hairdressing and body oil. Not because they wanted to because they didn't, they knew they would not have access to enough product and did not want to pay a heinous amount of money for it.

Joy (16:33):
Right.

Orion Brown (16:34):
That doesn't really work. So we have a basic hairdressing with the hair balm and we have more stuff coming right here. We've heard you. And then our body foam is a beautiful whip, rich body butter and oil. There was no water. So again, you're dealing with something that will travel well, it won't really spill. We're still working on getting CSA to recognize it as a solid. Cause they're interesting about that, but we're working on it. So we do come and we do have it coming in like a two ounce size as well. That's great for a carry on, but a little bit goes a long way. So if we were to equalize that solution, you'd probably have to bring like six or eight of those tiny bottles of lotion in order to, equalize the same amount that you get in a two ounce jar.

Joy (17:21):
Wow.

Orion Brown (17:21):
And then we have lip balm because I mean, nobody's trying to be crusty.

Joy (17:26):
No, yeah. That's super cool. I liked that you guys are, you know, listening to your customer feedback, you know, working on that body bomb and then everything's in solid. That's really cool. Like, especially as like I'm usually traveling with, just a carry on for most of my vacation trips. So like definitely this would just save me from having to like transfer shampoos and, like you said, like most grocery stores or Target or beauty shops, they're really behind on having travel sizes in any type of black or textured hair space. So we need this, we need this. So do you have any advice for people wanting to start a travel brand? Maybe they're passionate about travel or they want to be entrepreneur? Like how did you, how were you able to combine your passions and just like, what advice would you have?

Orion Brown (18:24):
I mean, I would say the first thing that I say to any entrepreneur, because I also do business consulting and help people kind of figure those types of things out. Even if you're an established entrepreneur or you're an established business, the first thing you want to do is say, "is this something that I actually care about?" Because if you start a business and even if it's going pretty well, it's not fueling what you're passionate about, you won't be really in it. And the second you hit a bump in the road, you won't want to be there and it'll be that much more difficult. So if you're passionate about travel and you want to start a travel-based business, I think about the things about travel that you really love and what is needed. So for instance, if you create a business that requires you to have a brick and mortar store, you know, physically located somewhere, are you still going to be able to travel?

Orion Brown (19:19):
Cause nine times out of 10, you're going to be spending time in that store, getting it up and running, making sure it works, dealing with busted pipes, all that stuff, right? Because it's your baby. You put money into it. So you want to be really mindful of that. But if you love travel from the cultural expression standpoint, or you love it from the food standpoint, then having a brick and mortar might make sense. You may have to travel less those first few years that you're starting with business, but you can still be in sort of the atmosphere of travel and the cultural atmosphere. If you create a business that's around that. So again, just really think about the lifestyle that you need and want and what you're truly passionate about and balance those two things. When you're coming up with your idea and how you want to, how you want to bring that to market.

Joy (20:06):
That's some really good advice for people starting out. And as far as being in the beauty space specifically, what what, were there any challenges in trying to, you know, get shampoo bars or just like anything that you have, because it seems like, you know, you're not just, you know, putting shampoo in a bottle, you're saying like this has no water and stuff like that. So what were some of the challenges that came when trying to make beauty products travel-friendly?

Orion Brown (20:38):
Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. There's, there's two major challenges. Typically, let me explain first, typically when you're starting a new brand, whether it be in the food space or whether it be in the beauty space, you want to like, you know, figure out what it is and do all of that stuff. And there's tons of briefs and things that you can do to put together or describe what kind of business you want and what the product should be and how they should come to life. And you would go out to a manufacturer and say, Hey, you know, manufacturer that does lower minimum order quantity. Cause a lot of there's tons of manufacturers all over the country that make millions of things, right? Millions of tiny bottles of things and all of that stuff. But when you want specific stuff and you're in, you're just starting out and want to go to a manufacturer that has a low minimum order, which means you don't have to buy a hundred thousand units from them.

Orion Brown (21:32):
You could buy maybe a thousand or 10,000, which still sounds like a lot. I know. And then they can work with you on formulation and all of that, the problem becomes, this is the first problem. They are incentivized to make things that they already make. So it's typically, they want you to do private label, which means they already make a product or they already have a formulation. And all you're doing is swapping out a few key things that doesn't really change the physicality of the product, but you know, it makes it uniquely your own, your own scent or whatever that is great. If you're not trying to innovate. Innovation, however, takes money. And it takes influence because for them, they have to now change the way they do business, which makes their business less efficient. And so for you, you have to be a valuable enough client used to be a big enough client.

Orion Brown (22:28):
So in my past life, when I was running brands on a national level, I could go to a manufacturer. If it wasn't our own manufacturing I could go to a third party manufacturer and say, Hey, I need you to make a small run of this thing. And we're projecting that once we actually launched this thing, it's going to be, you know, millions of dollars in revenue for you. Of course, what do you need? How do I do it? We can get it to you yesterday. All of that, right? Not a problem. It's very different when you're starting out small. So that's the first challenge. The second challenge, and this is the one that I didn't anticipate, is that people have perceptions about products for people of color, particularly black folks. And I've literally gotten notes back from companies that have said things like we don't do products for Afro kinky hair.

Orion Brown (23:19):
And I was like, well, we haven't called it an Afro since the seventies. Thank you very much. But it's very clear that this is not money that you want. Like you do not want my money. And I've had a few interesting conversations with manufacturers as well that make it clear that they're not interested in that cohort. And so we went to plan B and we produce own products, which is fine. It's totally doable. And particularly with bar, there are brands like Lush, that's out there. Mmm. That makes solids of shampoos and conditioners. They do all of theirs by hand. Mind you, their processes a little bit different. But it's very, very doable. And so that's now the business model. And as we go to get funding for the business and, and look for capabilities to, you know, scale up, we'll continue to do with that in that manner.

Joy (24:16):
Awesome. Yeah. That's really valuable. For anyone looking to start a beauty brand, definitely like take this advice for someone who's been there, you know, don't reinvent the wheel, but definitely take this advice. Oh, so just my last question about your business. Obviously a lot of businesses in the travel industry are being hit hard due to COVID-19 because you are in the beauty space, I'm interested to see, has this affected your business in any way? Have you had to pivot to just being like namely also a household item that you can use when you're not traveling? What has that looked like for you?

Orion Brown (24:58):
Yeah, I mean, that's a really interesting, and that's been a, that's been a challenge that I've been working through over the last couple of months. So very good question. There's a couple of things, you know, I am very, because our awareness around our brand is pretty small. We're still building up awareness and working with lovely people like you to talk more about the brand is super, super helpful in that regard. Because we're still small, I want it to be really mindful of not diluting what our brand is about. I'm being really, really clear about what our brand positioning is and holding tight to that during this period. And so that being said, it has taken some pivots. So a few things that we've done about a month or so ago, we started a COVID Relief Kit, which is our body ball when our lip and it's a donation which allows people to purchase it.

Orion Brown (25:54):
And it goes, it gets directly donated to a frontline worker. And so the reason why I thought that that made a lot of sense was one, we're donating to frontline workers that are supporting our community particularly those in underserved communities that, you know, we know that underserved communities are just essentially overrun in terms of need. My hometown of Chicago, I believe the last numbers I saw were somewhere between 80 and 90% of COVID-19 related deaths were African American. We only make up about 40 to 43% of the population in that city. So you know that's problematic and you can imagine the the amount of care that's needed for that. So we created this donation item which allows us to support the efforts that are relevant to what's going on now. Relevancy is always, always key. When, you know, you're trying to gain and maintain customers as well as I just personally believe, you know, this product is created for our community to help us enjoy the travel that we have and not be distracted by silly things like product double standards, but giving us the time to have the self care that comes from travel and really have those experiences that we talked about earlier.

Orion Brown (27:19):
And so if we can't travel, how do I help with you kind of maintaining our self care, maintaining our wellness. And so we launched this, we donate it directly to actually, I think it was two weeks ago, we donated a hundred of these kits to an organization, a Dream Academy Foundation in Chicago, which was going out, they went out on May 6th or May 9th and disseminated these kids on Chicago's west side. We're also donating 20% of the proceeds to the National Association of Free and Charitable Clinics to further support the community and improve our community's outcomes because those free and charitable clinics are what typically are the first line of defense and underserved areas. And you know the rest of it allows us to keep our doors open while we're helping the community that we really love. So that was the first pivot.

Orion Brown (28:18):
The second one is currently in the works and it's getting masks made. So we're in the process of getting those produced right now. They are fashionable because, you know, we're being safe, but make it fashion. And they're made with performance materials so that they, you know, kind of perform a bit better than the cotton that most people are using and sort of the more generic mask. So more to come on that we already have that sitting as a coming soon on our site, we have some beautiful fabrics being printed up and really excited to introduce that. Travel right now and travel in the future is going to continue to require us wearing that. So this is something that is still very much in align with our positioning, but it gives folks something that they can use today and use going forward. And then the third piece is, y'all, I've spent so much damn money, excuse my English

Orion Brown (29:16):
So much money on candles since I've been home. Like I've been, cause all I do is I'm at home and I'm like it just smells like a person's in the house all day. I'm like I got the windows open and everything, but you know, there's more trash. So I've been burning candles all over the place. And I was like, one of the things that I wanted for, for us to have was wellness kit that you could take when you travel to create ambiance wherever you are. So if you check into your hotel room, you can light your little travel candle and just kind of create, you know, a bit of the atmosphere. And I said, well, you know what, why don't we go ahead and accelerate that because people are at home, we will make it an at-home item.

Orion Brown (29:55):
Like why would I give you a candle? That's going to bump for like 35 minutes? Well, maybe not 35 minutes, but you know, only burns for like an hour or two when I can give you an 18 hour candle cause you're going to be home. And so we're launching these I'm calling the "staycation" candle line, which is all about creating the ambiance of travel while you're still at home. So whether you're thinking about a trip, whether you're planning a trip or whether you just want to be transported somewhere else each scent is really meant to take you sort of on that journey and I really find candles very calming. So again, it comes back to wellness for our community as well.

Joy (30:38):
That's such a good idea.

Orion Brown (30:40):
Thank you. Thank you. And they're coming very soon. I actually have one lit next to me right now. One of our tests candles. It's A red wine scent and we're calling it burgundy as you know, as in Burgundy, France, and it smells divine. My new place has gotten chrisined by our new candles and we also have another scent coming called London fog. And it has, you know top notes of rain and some middle notes of just sort of, I would call it library

Orion Brown (31:13):
but that sounds too british to me. I'm like, yeah, that's right. That's right on point. It's like a little bit wet, a little bit library, but lively and has a little bit of a floral notes to it. So it, it doesn't make you feel like you're in somebody's basement. If it makes you feel like you're standing outside in a London garden somewhere. So that's coming soon. Those are our pivots. We're not going to go too far off. And we have a lot of interesting stuff coming as well. One thing that I'm, that I have planning in the works is a travel summit where we talk about all the stuff that's worrying people now, especially the people who are avid travelers who are missing travel, trying to figure out where it's safe to go. When can we go, how do we go? How do we save money? And then how do we keep that dream in our hearts of, of the places that we want to be

Joy (32:01):
Nice. That sounds really cool. I'm about to buy myself a candle. We wanna wrap up, we wanna wrap up the interview. We only got a couple minutes before it's too late before we go over time. So why do you think it's important for black women should travel?

Orion Brown (32:23):
I think it's important for black women and black men to travel. Primarily because we live in a country and in a time where the volatility that I think we thought we left in the sixties has become very apparent to us, right? And we're a new generation facing it. And you know, our history has, in some ways divorced itself, our recent history as somehow has divorced itself from what our parents and our grandparents knew about the insidious nature of racism, white supremacy and, and our reason for being on this continent, I say that with no qualms and also saying that the diversity that we do have in this country is beautiful and not only ethnically diverse, but culturally diverse, sexually diverse and all of that stuff. However, I think it's good to get out of this because there's a lot of trauma and there a lot of blood in this land.

Orion Brown (33:26):
And we need to separate ourselves from that and go reconnect with humanity, reconnect with our earth and reconnect with God and ourselves by getting out of the space and getting out of the familiarity of it. I find when I travel it forces me to look at myself as a human being because in every country, while in every country, I am black, I'm not black in the American definition. So when I go to Ireland, I get the caramel compliments and, but that's, but that's about it. I walked around Ireland for a week, drove around Ireland for a week and I never once felt black in the negative sense that can often happen in the United States.

Jenelle (34:13):
Wow.

Orion Brown (34:14):
And I mean, just even in the, you know, like every time I'm in a store here, I keep extra cash. Cause I want to be, I want somebody to stop me.

Orion Brown (34:21):
I want somebody to say something like, I want to clap my hands in their face, be like, this is a hundred dollar bill that I will not be spending with you because you're acting foolish. That's trauma, that's trauma from my childhood that's trauma from me being pulled aside and told that I stole knowing that I hadn't, you know, all of that stuff. I never, I didn't feel that once in Ireland.

Jenelle (34:41):
Mmm, wow.

Orion Brown (34:43):
Japan, people were just nice and they didn't stare like China they'll stare. Let's be honest. Japan was like an, but they were kind like they weren't, you know, aloof. And so when you start to see hospitality in different places, when you go to Croatia and most people don't speak real English, they speak just enough to like, you know, interact with tourists. And you're like, wow, I'm in another place that people are still kind. We don't same language. They have amazing food. They will sit. I mean, our waiter that we thought was cute sat and had a drink with us later that day.

Joy (35:19):
We're just asking you one last question. So for everyone who listened where can they find you? What's your website, socials, all of that stuff. So they can go get their hands on some awesome beauty products and also just follow your journey?

Orion Brown (35:34):
Yes, definitely. So check us out at blacktravelbox.com, where we have our products. We have a little bit more about our mission and what we're pursuing. Definitely check out our donation box on there, the COVID Relief Box and, and donate and share. And then you can find us on social, pretty much every platform, but our main bread and butter is Instagram. And that would be @blacktravelbox. If you want to find me, I am on every platform. I'm not, I'm not on TikTok yet. I'm going to get there though. But find me Orion, O R I O N underscore Helena, H E L a N @Orion_Helena and all of that form.

Joy (36:23):
Awesome. Yeah, definitely. Everyone. This was an awesome interview. I learned a lot about, you know, your brand and just your background and this was really valuable. So you want to thank you again for coming on and we will talk you on the internet.

Orion Brown (36:40):
Thank you so much for having me, ladies. This was really fun.

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